You’re a helmsman-creator of economic policy or an accountant?
Law and Justice presented a very ambitious program of economic and social development, which emphasizes the need to increase the efficiency of tax collection, therefore, it is difficult to think about the role of the Minister of finance for accounting. Although I was the profession I respect.
And who is more suitable tone economic policy: yours Ministry of Finance or the Ministry of Development, which is headed by former banker Mateusz Morawiecki?
the economic center of government is designed in a new way. Created departments, which until now was not, as the Ministry of Maritime Economy and the Ministry of Energy. A strong existing reorganized as the Ministry of Development, which replaced the former Ministry of Economy. If you want to answer the question, it takes about a year to find out where to place the most groundbreaking processes.
A direction in which economic policy is heading. Statism? At the end of the program 500+ greatly increase public spending in relation to GDP.
Yes, but it’s probably not surprising, because we talked about it for two years. Stwierdzaliśmy clear that the financial support of families will be one of the cornerstones of our program. But it is not a good idea to look at from the perspective of 500+ dispute: statism and liberalism, because it is an ambitious family policy. Statism, and as such I understand it, it refers to the organizational role of the state in economic processes, and not the financing of family benefits.
And redistribution that significantly increase. You took some level of public expenditure in relation to GDP, which should not exceed?
I’m not attached to any limit. In OECD countries this indicator is very diverse. Had to look for a correlation between the index and the level of redistribution of economic growth or other indicators showing the quality of life of citizens, you can prove different thesis. The constitutional debt limit, but the groups are winning elections based on their programs, and then implement them.
That can be both a high rate of redistribution, and a high standard of living? As in Sweden?
This just is not a model to which I was heading.
A to which we we heading?
the one in which conducted an ambitious family policy. To participate more actively in the global economy, in which Poland is not a passive participant in the process of division of labor and investment, but pursues its own agenda, as evidenced by the appointment of ministers of development, energy and maritime economy. This model, which is characterized by a departure from the common belief among many decision-makers from the 90s or intellectual circles dealing with the economy, that the best economic policy is the lack of policy.
This model will consist to support individual sectors or the designation of the macro?
He asks me about what correspond to other ministers, so I’d rather not answer that question.
So before we asked, where is the center of government economic policy Beaty Awl.
the most important center is always in the Prime Minister’s Office.
you have entered 500+, and yet still want to increase the tax-free amount and lower the retirement age, and hear about many other ideas, such as the housing program. Are their implementation enough money?
We have been elected for four years and the steps we will implement our program. I courted it to start from the 500+, the most important point of our plan. Others we will introduce in the coming years with the implementation of this, for which I am responsible. So for reconstruction own income countries, including tax.
We understand that in line with EU convergence criteria?
Of course. If we could have drawn about the map, on the one hand, it is a program with which we won the elections, and on the other – waiting and discussion with the European Commission to limit the deficit. And these are the main points on the map, between which I have to navigate.
with your point of view it would be better to withdraw from some points of the program or significantly modify them? For example, reduce the target retirement age to 65 years, but maintain a slow increase it to that limit for women.
Interesting question, but I’m not able to give answers in this interview . We are confident that all our ambitious program should be implemented. It is a question of management of the implementation of promises in time and our credibility with the citizens. And today we are criticized for the fact that from 1 January 2016. Were not completed all the points of the program.
Can you imagine a situation in which you or Deputy Morawiecki say: they are things that we can not afford?
I do not know what awaits us in the future. I am convinced that during the term of office will be able to all the obligations fulfilled.
Until now we spoke only about the implementation of the electoral program, and what you see other challenges for the government?
Stopping and reversing the trend of drying state tax revenue, measured as a percentage of GDP. This is my strategic goal. I want to achieve it while keeping correct relations with the European Commission. And such management size of the public sector deficit to not met us consequences of exceeding the limit of 3 percent. GDP. I also wish that during my tenure gross domestic product Polish exceeded 2 billion zł.
What is the cause drying of income?
Problems began to grow in the years 2008-2009. Then it was still possible to believe that the results from the deteriorating economic situation that is the result of unspeakable loud approval to lower tax revenues in exchange for maintaining economic growth. But later these phenomena began to deepen and acquired systemic nature. The ability to bypass and non-payment of taxes has gone too far and has become almost a kind of sport. Practiced and practice it often international companies, which are our guests, but loathe paying even buck CIT in Poland.
Why is your predecessors failed to prevent them, “sport”?
When I come other times in Polish politics and can be such a discussion, I would like to ask them a question. I can only judge by the symptoms. On the one hand, there may be a phenomenon of not recognizing or counting on that for a moment the situation changes and income will increase. At the same time the belief that if things somehow roll, it is better to do nothing, because elections are approaching. It was therefore necessary to take care of it, that one or the other organization did not comment negatively about the government, not demanded the resignation of the minister. It was probably a mix of misdiagnosis and the current political practice. I hope that was not the ill will and conscious action.
Increase in tax collection is a strategic goal for you. Where in the implementation of this plan are you now?
The activities have been developed between my deputies. On the one hand is to create a well-functioning tax administration, the path to motivate and reward employees. This includes increases in salaries essential. I believe that the situation, in which the basic salaries of 60 percent. tax administration are less than 3 thousand. zł gross state is not acceptable. And this stems from several years of wage freeze in budżetówce.
So your army has poor morale.
Yes, and in addition to the current system of financial bonuses and allowances for employees does not serve the economy and Treasury. An example, now fortunately the former, this phenomenon was a bonus for issuing tax decisions, despite the fact that appeals to them the treasury was losing money and had to pay the taxpayer. Such bad incentives must be eliminated. Much of the change is already in parliament, though he has a clause to circumvent the tax law is the reduction of the maximum permitted ceiling for cash transactions between companies to 15 thousand. zł. Finally, the expanded digital divide between what you can do private business – the Internet has made the flow of money became instant – and how can it respond to the tax authorities. If we look at the experience of countries such as Portugal, the Netherlands, the Czech Republic and Slovakia, which have made great progress in recent years, it is seen that this may be the most important point of breaking. Hence the idea of the law on information technology special purpose company, which in April should be adopted by the Parliament.
These solutions through part of the taxpayers will be seen as restrictive. A dissatisfaction means the political costs. They are for you to accept?
The positive effects, consisting in the fact that taxpayers will have to deal with a competent and kind to them the service tax authorities, which will be effective against cheaters, outweigh these costs. Stop paying VAT refunds to people who do nothing in Poland, and only click on your laptop, making transactions within the carousel vatowskiej.
It will look like this network Szałamacha a catch cheaters ?
technological standards are different. Now I will not say what solutions we use, how we will capture the abuses and reduced the gap vatowską. But we have to make the people who knowingly do business like “sale costs” or “sales invoice”, they will know that they will be quickly identified, and the buyer the invoice does not receive benefits.
But as it is specifically prevent the use of mechanisms such as carousel VAT?
An important role will be played here analytics that will capture this type of behavior. The effects should be talking for the year.
How many of you manage to actually win money in the next year thanks to the sealing of the tax system? And to what level will increase tax revenues in relation to GDP by the end of the term?
We are in the calculations. My goal is to descend to the level of the VAT gap to the EU average. We are 26-27 percent. potential revenue from this tax in the EU – approx. 15 per cent. And I would like to see in this place for three years.
Is the camera in addition to equipment tax on new tools to combat fraud changed, the method of its operation? Is the IRS to forgive the small taxpayers whose control is much easier, but less effective?
forgive is not a good word. Rather relieved. The first step will be to raise the limit entry into compulsory VAT of 150 thousand. zł annual turnover of at least 200 thousand. zł. Another – to propose a simplified method of payment of the tax nearly 900 thousand. small taxpayers vatowskich. Perhaps it will be a lump-sum settlement specified amount or percentage of turnover. And all of this in order to focus on those areas where there is more irregularities and where leaking money.
Do you already resolved the matter the size of VAT rates in the next year? According to the law they have to be reduced by a percentage point.
Probably in the next year will not be a return to lower rates. Not to recommend such a solution.
A political implications? The government will have to present a draft amendment to the Law on VAT.
It will be a whole novel on VAT, including boost turnover threshold for mandatory VAT. In the same project can also find a recipe for rates.
PiS criticized PO for raising VAT, and in the campaign promised its reduction.
first, we need to restore tax revenues. For several months, this can not be done. It is impossible to reverse the process, which lasted eight years.
What about system changes? For example, the introduction of VAT sales tax instead of or in addition? The first attempts are already, eg. A project to allow discharge of tax on turnover in the shipyards instead of CIT or plan to introduce a tax on the value of sales in the trade.
In the shipbuilding industry would be a formula of tax income tax payable as a percentage of revenue, besides the option of the company. But the widespread introduction of such a formula is not a simple matter. Assuming that the tax rate would be 1 percent. the value of income, you have to remember that this 1 percent. operate differently in different industries. Profitability in the traditional sectors of the economy, eg. In the timber industry, the food is quite different than in the field of new technologies. One percent does not always mean the same thing.
What about sales tax? Would not it be better to withdraw from it, since the proceeds from it will not be big, but it causes a lot of political problems?
In April we will present the project. His form will be similar to that which we proposed previously. With tax we exclude sales through the Internet. To resolve are forms of activity, which will be taxed, and the level of rates – both increasing with the size of the market, as well as special rates weekend.
The tax will be progressive?
I am in favor of such a form, because it takes into account the ability to pay of individual taxpayers.
not afraid of the reaction of the European Commission? Once he spoke negatively about the progression of the tax.
Contrary to appearances, there is room for maneuver, because similar tax operates in France. This is not a situation of ones and zeros, although the issue is controversial. There is no single European standard.
A dispute with the Commission on the Constitutional Court does not hinder you work?
There is no dispute with the Commission on this matter. The Commission has no jurisdiction here.
But the initiated control of the rule of law against the Polish. And you can see the fiery relations between Brussels and Warsaw. Is it not influenced the assessment of trade tax?
This would mean that the Commission is not objective and carries political issues on assessment of tax regulations, it wants in this way hinder life of the government. That might be construed that the assurances of the European community and impartial administration are false.
Speaking of relations with Brussels: soon you resort will send the Commission an update of the convergence program. At what level will be entered in a deficit?
Certainly not exceed 3 percent. Of GDP in 2017.
What about the path of the deficit in subsequent years?
Even earlier was moving scenario of gradual reducing the deficit. According to my assumption that the deficit will be reduced step by step, it is more realistic than the plans presented in previous years, assuming a large drop in the deficit with the optimistic forecasts. Our economic program is ambitious, and it is safe to carry out, without going into excessive deficit procedure. I will not propose a rapid descent and reduce the deficit ratio.
Which year will be the most difficult in terms of the deficit?
according to our preliminary assessments – the future. It will be important also convinced the European Commission that we are able to keep the deficit at the required level by improving tax collection.
Does the Ministry is working on a single tax on personal income, which would combine the current PIT and insurance premiums?
bringing together contributions from tax in one tribute was the idea of our political competition and resulted from a dramatic attempt to regain the initiative in the election campaign. This idea has some pluses, but there is always a problem with accurate simulation of what it would mean for a particular group of taxpayers, or not come to a situation that in some cases will increase the burden.
Does this mean that you are opposed to a thorough remodeling of the tax system in this term?
No. Only if you look at the chances of carrying out individual projects and the level of acceptance of change, we need to know when and what you can do. It seems to me that I’ve presented fairly ambitious agenda.
You talked about the need to rebuild income – whether from this point of view, do not feel you discomfort in connection with plans to increase the amount of free in PIT? Its increase to 8 thousand. zł means a big loss of income.
That’s why I talked about gradual changes, not to risk a sharp limit is exceeded 3 percent. GDP deficit. Because if that happened, some of the Poles would feel very anxious. It would feel too much of the financial investors who bestowed credit of trust and support of the previous team. And we’ve got on this loan work for it.
Is this context, is not worried about your opinion of Moody’s, which indicated that the crisis surrounding the Constitutional Court may affect the assessment of the creditworthiness?
I am concerned about the action taken last summer and attempt to lock the tribunal by the team, which was then in power, and assumed that it will soon lose. And the subsequent actions of the President of TK prof. Andrew Rzepliński. In contrast, reactions agency I find incomprehensible, as to go beyond their current role. It is difficult, we will have to endure.
But is not it the case that for a foreign investor who is not interested in political disputes in Poland, such a signal Moody’s could be disturbing?
maybe they will. Therefore, you need to appeal to prof. Rzepliński to abide by the law.
Do you have a scenario in case Moody’s downgraded?
We will see in May when will a review of credit rating.
But is not it disturbing that the assessments of rating agencies are references to political issues, not just economic?
the question of whether other countries are also assessed in this way. Is agencies will take into account the outcome of the US elections, and only the foundations of the American economy.
How can we feel another downgrade?
We managed in January. We have strong advantages: social support, the foundations of the economy and the government, who knows what he wants and has a stable majority in parliament.
Statism, and I so I understand it relates to organizational role of the state in economic processes, and not the financing of family benefits
I would like to ask my predecessors from the Civic Platform, why have committed to a situation where tax evasion has become a sport? Why allow it to foreign companies? And why they have done little to budget revenues ceased to dry.
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