Mr employs 90 people on a contract of employment. At a time when most companies avoided such contracts and replaces them with self-employment, orders, works, you appear to you as one of the last of the righteous. All of your subordinates are employees?
Marek Kalbarczyk president of Altix, the author of the first Polish speech synthesizer, founder Chance Foundation for the Blind, the author of many books and manuals: Anyone who comes to the company every day to perform professional duties, has a contract of employment, the vast majority for an indefinite period. I do not support the use of other grounds for employing workers do not want to replace contracts of employment other contracts. It’s unethical. In part, this is due also to the type of activity that we, that is, the distribution of information technology for the blind to enable them to work with your computer.
There are some industries in which ethical standards are higher ?
These are sectors in which it is unthinkable to use only economic principles market. It is hard to imagine that the doctor refused to help when a patient has no money! Similarly, in many other areas or issues. And how to keep worker and his manager, while building a bridge and see that something must be done, and do not have a job, pay and already want to go home?
In my field, or mitigating the invalidity of sight, where we’re working to blind people could cope with the greatest collection of activities and tasks and that the environment was best suited to their requirements and capabilities, not just sales of services and goods. Demonstrate empathy and help you need on a daily basis. Hence our idea to create a foundation. You can certainly act differently, but we chose such a path. Through this foundation helps the environment, but also, already without its mediation, to their employees. Other businesses communicate outside donations, and on behalf of their employees work even through their own social funds.
And other businessmen not banging your head when they talk to you? After employment on a contract of employment is not only higher costs, including primarily on social security, but also with better employment guarantees for workers. Therefore, companies try to avoid them.
The fact that we employ employment contracts do not celebrate rules rather meet with approval, also from other employers. We are not slaves of the idiotic rush to cut costs arising from the unbridled pursuit of profit. The world fell into this trap. This does not include labor costs, moreover only saves you also, eg. For quality goods, manufacturing. And yet, for example. Ham will not be better because its manufacturer cuts all such expenditure. Moreover, since everyone is trying to maximize profits, it is all part become a victim of coercion to cut costs. We do not always realize it.
got lost on the open market?
Zagalopowaliśmy the changes on the the labor market and in the economy after 1989. We have forgotten that besides money, there are other values such as the right to decent working conditions, respect for others, even if they do not have the capacity to ensure that it alone on the open market it. We have an ethical economy in crisis. Everywhere – in companies, corporations, banks, local governments, government – money matters. It came out of that so-called. employment contracts junk and this is the main reason why public outrage that wakes up among the citizens, giving rise to new movements. It’s not about changing the government or the political class, but the approach to work, earning money, job stability, the conditions of its own activities. See to it that our capitalism has a human face.
What were your experiences? The company was founded 26 years ago you.
Well I went to the computer and mathematical studies. But after completing their four years I had a problem with finding a job. So I understand what it means to resentment and rebellion against barriers which prevents realization of life plans. I’m blind. I set up a company that deals with solutions to facilitate the taking of work by people like me. But not everyone is created to run their own business. Those who feel up to it, let him fight for his open, competitive market, but these weaker must be provided some stability of income, which enables them as worthy of life. Weak and excluded can not cope alone. It is a bitter reflection that Solidarity, which in his youth wholeheartedly cheering, allowed the creation of economic and social system in which he did not remember. After the anti-communist opposition was not only a password banners of freedom and independence, but also social equity, taking care of decent working conditions. It was her primary, basic priorities, it took them a movement that led to regime change.
As you advised as a businessman with his own disability?
first had to overcome the barrier of their own ignorance. I head did not come that I created companies or foundations. Then, when quite suddenly, it turned out that I have to do, complement these shortcomings. It was so big challenge and so handling job, they do not even thought about his disability. Once you have had and at this time, I met with respect rather than problems and help. In many situations diverse range of people helped me more than others – for example, computer scientists, officials and activists.
Over time, mastered all professional activities that I need to do personally, and I fell on the heads of others co-workers. This is a typical solution – blind doing it, what are the best, the rest of the others are doing. It is wise and fair division of labor. And as I have many different abilities, and so most do alone, and I am pleased every time.
Do employees in your company do not abuse their powers? Did any of your employees did not use what you offer him, and did not go for a trivial reason to Tribunal?
Those who are employed on a contract of employment, usually they appreciate that the company gives them regular employment basis, not scheming how to circumvent the rules to save their expense. For a long time I did not have any litigation with employees. In recent times, however, it occurred two such cases. These people definitely have some of your arguments, yet no one is perfect. Undoubtedly, ethical crisis is not limited to employers. It also includes workers, which manifests itself in many ways. It’s not just that some people employed on a contract of employment are waiting for it to scare employer National Labour Inspectorate, to appeal to the court, pull compensation from the company, take advantage of the fact that labor courts often take toward the weaker participant of the dispute, which employed . Such actions are in fact in part a response to the behavior of those employers who are in pursuit of profit they try to cut any expenses related to employment. If the employer has no qualms about it and he employs people do not feel connected emotionally with the workplace and decide to fight with someone who is trying to achieve benefits at their expense. This ethical crisis for workers goes deeper.
The workers themselves decide to morally questionable actions or agree that they too must combine to make?
Yes, it happens. An example might be a situation where there were people who took loans in francs. Banks lend money to them, but it is not the owners of these institutions personally, only through their employees, and often credit counselors. After all, these people know that this solution is very risky and unfavorable to borrowers, but to encourage others to benefit from it.
all operate under the principle of “win the one who is impossible to con “?
Scary is screwing cunning fashion. There is a general consent that one person uses another or preys on state aid. Let me give an example, closer to the environment in which it operates. As for the so-called. fictitious employment of disabled persons. The employer communicates with that person and sign an employment contract. The company receives funding for her salary from the State Fund for Rehabilitation of the Disabled (PFRON). It does not cover the entire salary, so let’s assume that the entrepreneur of his own pocket must pay more for example. 400 zł. The employee gives him though, of course, informally, under the table, some of the money from the grant. This amount exceeding 400 zł. In this way, both sides are satisfied, because the shared resources of the PFRON and actually got the money without lifting a finger. Wykołowali stupid system. Except that once again we are dealing with a case that someone living at the expense of others. And at the same degrades disabled, because the real – not fictional – work is a great way to rehabilitation and social inclusion of such persons, and work fictional society discourages us.
None is not able to reduce such trafficking, verify properly provides financial support?
Of course I can. This would however require some initiative law enforcement, even the prosecution. And here we come to another element that contributed to the pathology of the labor market and, more broadly, in the economy: the irrationality, lack of merytoryczności, which is prevalent at all levels of governance in the country, and often also in private companies. Fictitious employment of disabled people decided to limit by introducing the principle that subsidized employee salary will be credited to his account can not be transferred to the hands, which had put an end to the sharing of support from the PFRON. Only it was completely ineffective solution, because a disabled person may then withdraw some of the money from your account and give back “to hand” of the employer.
Examples of such obvious inefficiency is more. Crown may be spending EU money on training and professional activation of the unemployed under the Operational Programme Human Capital. They spent millions of dollars on training people – and it was known in advance – do not want or are not able to work. Another example, though also linked with European funds. Suppose that the company is carrying out an EU project for a specified period of time. A worker, who was employed for this purpose, not particularly up to the task advises, then suddenly becomes ill and for a considerable period is absent. If the project is not completed, you will have to pay EU subsidy. No one will be interested in that job failure was not the fault of the employer.
What this rationality should rely on? The rules today are too stiff, unsuited to modern realities?
I am not a lawyer and I find it difficult to assess whether the same changes in the law be eliminated pathologies with which we are now dealing with, both in the sphere of economic activity and the labor market. Provisions should, however, recognize the complexity, diversity needs that they have and employers, and employees. If the company building the bridge, eg. In Rzeszów, the next project will receive in Szczecin, you should be able to easily terminate employment based on employment contracts of those doing the work in Podkarpacie and adopt a new project with the West Pomeranian person. Now it is not so simple, because the employment contract gives certain guarantees of employment. There is nothing wrong with that, but you can also overdo it with the scope of those privileges. Protection against dismissal can not continue indefinitely, because such a solution sooner or later would discourage the company to hire on a contract of employment and contribute to the popularization of junk contracts.
And how to This manifests irrationality in dealing with the authorities of the state?
Even in how companies are treated by the labor courts. Just because someone decides to hire workers under contracts of employment, rather than civil law, it should be appreciated. In the end, the employer is not trying to evade the law, pays social insurance contributions in a normal height and at a subordinate employment base that guarantees stable working conditions. But the opposite is true. The labor court examines only the circumstances of the case, does not take into account the fact that, for example. Employer employs tens or even hundreds of employees, not contractors that trying to follow the letter of the law and ethics. In turn, the one who will be spared to subordinates, offering them self-employment or assignment, or behave unethically in general will have no such problem – employed by him can not even complain to an employment tribunal, because formally they are not employees. This discourages companies to operate in full compliance with the law. And it reinforces the widespread opinion that the best deal, those who combine. Cunning mountain again.
From our conversation emerges a fairly depressing picture of not only the labor market, but also of modern society. Is there a recipe for all these ills?
third way between capitalism and social state, not invent. But you can certainly do much to solve these problems. The pathology including ending certainly could help better enforcement by state authorities. I’m sure that for example. In the case of the said fictitious employment of the disabled intervention of the prosecutor’s office would be the major effects, because both sides of this practice are aware that clearly break the law. However, not only strict solution are effective. I realize that example. When inspections begin control in the company, it will always find some abnormality. This is the purpose of their activities, but is detected for the first time of the infringement visit, the controller should end admonition and an explanation on how to remove this anomaly, not a financial penalty.
Support or encouragement could be better than a sanction?
Yes. In this respect, a very good option, which recently introduced, it is possible to conclude social clauses in public procurement. Thanks to public entities may, for example. Insist that an entity that wants to implement the contract, a certain percentage of people employed on a contract of employment or accept to work with disabilities. However, it is thought that the use of such clauses should not be a necessity, not depend on the goodwill of a state institution. And do not go with the flow and not to introduce rules that are preferred other companies operating for the common good, for example. The non-environmental damage.
You’re talking about solutions in legal sense. And what can be done to improve the social relations, that is, to limit the struggle of all against all about who is the most cunning and can not be used?
You certainly can build better communication in the media. Today reigns in their aggression, and it is hardly surprising that the citizens in this way get used to as well in real life. They think – this is already the world. A mass message should teach mutual respect, also in issues related to employment and running their own business. One person must be a manager who will win the tender for the company, will take care of market, contractors, etc. A second witness working in the production, perform the service. And these two sides may have to self esteem, since one can something they do not poradziłoby yourself is another. Meanwhile, management employees in Poland is very often vulgar.
Does not explain the fact that the majority of entrepreneurs in Poland are freshly minted businessmen, employers in the first generation?
This does not justify vulgarity. Anyway, the point is not to immediately increase all salaries and give up their profits. Employers often forget that the remuneration is not just a collection of earned zlotys, and the work has employed not only material value. If someone earns 1.5 thousand. zł, but thanks to their work can perform tasks that relate to his passion, he will be on the employment depended much more than it could indicate a salary.
Is Companies, however, is not limited in this respect nature of the business? Not all works are interesting, and somebody has to do it yet.
It is not always possible to combine work with passion. But the employer can do a lot to feel subjectively engaged and connected with the company. If it manages to training, it might spend a little more money and send it to a child is not the motel somewhere in the suburbs, only to a decent hotel in an attractive tourist spot. It does not particularly great expense, and the employee will surely appreciate, which translates into quality of work. Surely we lack a solution that managed better use of social enthusiasm. I acted socially, and I was involved in the wider Solidarity movement, I support the free market and freedom of economic activity, do not miss the previous regime, but one thing you have to give back this past times – to the common good could have been so much easier to mobilize people to action. The best example is the reconstruction of the destroyed after the war Warsaw. In large part this was done in a communal or a really small remuneration. And yet the same aim, that the contractor could have a close look at the effects of jointly achieved, allowing the rapid rebirth of the city, even though the society was much poorer.
So this third However, the road is possible?
I do not know if it exists, but nobody forbids us to look for her.
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